Christian Theology

September 16, 2008

Ray Boltz is a Homosexual: Shouldn’t We Be Glad That He is Happy?

 

Many Christians are familiar with the music of Ray Boltz.  In the 1990’s he published several songs which stayed on the Christian music charts for months and found their way into the “special music” section of church services everywhere.  A few of his hits were “Thank You (for Giving to the Lord)”  “Watch the Lamb” and “I Pledge Allegiance to the Lamb”  Well, he has come out to let the world know that he is a homosexual.

 

So what should we think about the “coming out” of such a notable Christian figure, especially since he is now claiming to be happy?  Besides the obvious sorrow we should feel for the destruction caused to Mr. Boltz’s family by divorcing his wife and the grief of his four children, and sorrow for Mr. Boltz himself as he is now living outside the revealed will of God, this should cause us to think for a minute about the deceptive nature of our enemy.

 

Scripture says that our enemy prowls around like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour, and much too often we as Christians do not take this warning seriously enough.  Now I do not claim to have insight into the exact reasons why Mr. Boltz decided to grab on to his lusts and forsake his obedience to the Lord, but there are a few general things which usually take place in all these instances.

 

First, it did not happen overnight.  Falls of this nature usually progress from what we sometimes consider lesser sins.  Thoughts enter the mind and instead of dealing with them they begin to be dwelt upon.  Then those thoughts progress into small acts of compromise and years later there seems to be no way of reversing the trend.  The warning here should be clear, with whatever sin we are dealing, one of the key battlegrounds if not the key battleground, is the mind.  We must take every thought captive and not wait until they manifest in other ways.

 

Second, there is the questioning of God.  “Did the Lord really say?” is the question that inevitably comes to mind.   During this point, whether consciously or unconsciously, something begins to cause us to put scripture in a place of less authority.  Unfortunately, what usually takes its place and causes revision to our interpretation of the clear word of God is “happiness.”  And this certainly played a part in Mr. Boltz’s story.  He mentions in his coming out interview in the Washington Blade, that before he came out he was unhappy and even depressed.  So much so that he had to go on anti-depressants.  So why would he bring this up?  Though he does not state it explicitly, it is for the simple reason that he wants us to make the same logical conclusion he has made. That if I am not happy I must be interpreting scripture incorrectly, after all God would not make me in such a way where I would be unhappy.

 

Third this trend of putting happiness first did not come out of nowhere.  It saturates American evangelicalism, and is clearly a device of the enemy.  All we have to do is listen to Christian music, Christian conferences, and even the preaching in many churches to see this is this trend.  The true gospel has been substituted.  Instead of preaching law and gospel where we are told the truth that we need to come to Christ because we are sinners deserving of wrath, and that the wages of sin is death, what is preached in its place is sorrow and self-esteem.  The reason you need to come to Christ isn’t because you are sinner deserving wrath, but because you feel lonely, things aren’t going right in your life, and because you are unsatisfied with your life at the moment.  It turns out that this is why you should come to Jesus.  It’s not sin and the need of repentance.  The problem with this is evident when we ask, what happens when a “Christian” becomes unhappy, lonely, or unsatisfied, what is the problem now?  They already have Jesus. The problem must be with the way we interpret Jesus.  And so it goes. 

 

The problem with all this is that striving against sin, whether in us or in others, is never comfortable or pleasant.  Even striving against sin can make us lonely, because some people will reject us for it, and we will even face times of heaviness and great sorrow because of it too.

 

The author of the book of Hebrews makes this point when he encourages his readers to press on in their fight against sin.  He reminds them that they “have not resisted to bloodshed striving against sin” (Heb. 12:4). 

 

So this would be my words of encouragement to Mr. Boltz if I had a chance to talk with him.  Yes it is hard struggling against the assaults of such strong sinful lust, and it may cause you unhappiness for a time, but you have not yet resisted to bloodshed, and it would be better to enter the kingdom of heaven after a long and unpleasant fight, than to go to hell on beds of ease. Come home Mr. Boltz.  Go back to your family if they will have you, and start fighting against sin again, for any temporary happiness you think you now have will be short lived.   And even though living a life battling with sin may be tough, it cannot  be compared to the glory that awaits us in heaven with our Savior.

 

I pray that Mr. Boltz is indeed a Christian who will be brought back by the chastening hand of the Lord (Heb. 12:11), but the unfortunate thing for many who find themselves in this situation is that they never come back because they are not his, and scripture is clear…

 

If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten? But if you are without chastening of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons (Heb. 12:8).

 

May we all be aware of the roaring lion and his tactics.  May we guard our hearts diligently even when it is painful.  For the Word of God is clear…

 

“Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. (1 Cor. 6:9-10)”

 

I for one will not be glad that Mr. Boltz has found a home in the homosexual lifestyle, even if he does claim to have a happiness he didn’t have before.  Instead, I will weep for him to come home.

 

Doug Eaton

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103 Comments »

  1. Doug,
    Thank you for directing me to that Washington Blade article. I left a comment there. Mr. Boltz is quite articulate in his honesty. Not that it matters, but I am not gay. I have many good gay (and gay christian) friends. I used to be a christian, and a minister, and loved christian music (especially in the 70s Jesus Movement). I learned along the way that God was much bigger than me, my beliefs, my theology, christianity, the bible, religion and. . .you name it. Saw people judged and outcast from the church for a long time. Discovered that Jesus himself was not a christian, and wouldn’t be welcomed in the church anyway (as a jewish homeless radical streetperson who criticized the self-righteous biblequoters!). Simply want to let you know that, for some of us who were once born again (and spoke in tongues, and wore a collar, and know the bible very well), there is a Life After Faith, and it is a joyful, fulfilling and good life. I wish you the best.
    Chris

    Comment by chris — September 17, 2008 @ 12:26 am | Reply

    • I would just like to say if you was ever a Christian, you still are so I would have to pass judgement & say you never was. It’s not something you can put on & take off like a hat. I see your observations of what a Christian is & obviously, they are way off – speaking in tongues & wearing a collar? That’s like the old saying sitting in a garage doesn’t make you a car no more then sitting in a church makes you a Christian. You’ve sat in a garage way too long thinking you’re a car. Yes, you can have the “good” life without Christ but there is always consequences to your decisions. I wish you the best as well, salvation though Christ.

      Comment by Tammy Henson — May 17, 2011 @ 2:38 pm | Reply

    • I just learned last night of Ray Boltz coming out claiming he is homosexual. It saddens my heart. His ministry back in 86 is what brought me to the Lord. He was in Winchester Indiana in concert with Priscilla Engle. I will pray for him. The enemy has come to steal kill and destroy. It’s amazing how he deceives people. Every sin we commit is based on a lie we believe in!

      Comment by billy — November 30, 2012 @ 9:58 am | Reply

  2. i have not read many responses from christian community about this ray boltz announcing that he is gay, but i agree with you. what he fails to see is that it is so not about him and his happiness.
    if this how he feels about his sexual desires- there is nothing in the Word of God that gives him permission to give into worldly lust, homosexual or otherwise. he is also responsible for those he will cause to stumble and for the damage done to furthering the Gospel. he says he is doing concerts in churches accepting of the homosexual lifestyle. God’s Word strongly teaches against this sin.i just can’t help but wonder how can he justify this behavior.
    he should have sought Godly counsel, so as to honor and respect his family and the family of God, rather than giving an interview with a gay magazine or news paper, mocking the teachings of God.
    my husband and i have always enjoyed his music, videos and concerts, it is hard to understand how someone who could write and sing such powerful music, could casually say that he new he was gay since he was a kid.was his whole ministry just a lie?
    i would think that he would be so grieved by this, that he would take his own life before he would make this public. how come he is not willing to ask God’s forgiveness?
    doesn’t he realize how heartbroken God is and what a field day Satan is having with the damage being done to further the cause of Christ.
    christians are in shock about this awful news, how can he put his HAPPINESS before everyone and everything?

    Comment by joann — September 17, 2008 @ 2:41 am | Reply

  3. As a Christian man and minister who has struggled with homosexual desire I must agree completely with what you have written here Doug. I counsel a lot of men and what I tell them is almost exactly what you have stated here. I left behind the homosexual lifestyle eight years ago and I can tell you it was anything but “gay”. While today I am not what could be considered a raging heterosexual, what I am is an obedient child of God when it comes to giving him what he wants from me. And what he wants is everything including my desires to do sinful things.

    Mr. Boltz’s situation saddens me greatly. In fact, when I heard I wondered how long he had been carrying the burden of shame, guilt and lust and be unable to talk about it. Or if he had indeed talked about what was the underlining void in his life. Homosexuality is not about sex, it is about relationship. And it isn’t that a homosexual can’t relate to women. It is that they can’t relate to men. I speak as a person who has been there! God is a God of grace and healing. I pray too, that Mr. Boltz does come back home to a Jesus that loves him more than any man in a homosexual relationship could ever possibly could. Jesus loves me this I know for sure. When I had a lover I could only guess.
    Ron

    Comment by Ron — September 17, 2008 @ 3:33 am | Reply

    • Mr. Boltz cannot come back to Jesus. He has chosen homosexuality over God. And there is no such thing as(gay christians). Homosexuality is of the devil,and not of God. The choices we make whether good or bad don’t hurt God only us and the people around us. Mr. Boltz should have stayed read and prayed up in the Word the Bible. If you are a homosexual,then you get saved you have to fight really hard against the wiles of the devil. He will tempt you and try to make you fall in any way possible.

      Comment by Anonymous — February 9, 2012 @ 4:12 pm | Reply

      • Anon … your statement is both wrong and Scripturally incorrect. Saying that Ray Boltz “cannot come back to Jesus” is so foreign to what God teaches and the Bible indicates – by both scripture and example – that I wonder about your particular “brand” of Christianity. Ray Boltz must turn from his sin, repent and seek God’s face in this matter. God’s arms of forgiveness and acceptance are always open.

        Comment by TallTexan2 — December 7, 2012 @ 4:11 pm | Reply

  4. We don’t judge, we all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. I will say there are two tragedies here, one the wife and 4 kids, I know that they must be hurting and the kids must be very confused. But there is a larger issue and that is Ray’s salvation, it is a terrible thing when someone has a fall from grace but it is a much bigger tragedy if they are lost. I believe that Ray is saved, he confesses Jesus has his savior, now don’t get me wrong he is dead wrong about homosexuality but it is also very difficult for me to judge him to hell as well. So I say don’t judge, just love and pray for his family and his eternal salvation. Todd

    Comment by stricknine — September 17, 2008 @ 3:35 am | Reply

  5. Good thoughts. Thanks for sharing.

    Comment by Barry Wallace — September 17, 2008 @ 7:37 am | Reply

  6. I think the article is more of what ‘should have happened’ in Ray Boltz’s life to help prevent him from confessing that he is homosexual. While this might be helpful for those struggling with how to deal with such temptation, or other temptation, in the present, I think we now need to consider how to pastorally and graciously help restore one who has fallen and given in to such (whether Boltz or a friend we know). I’m not so sure the article would be relevant to Ray Boltz in the present now. I think God’s call is not only prevention, which is very helpful, but how to deal with those who have given in and are presently in need.

    Comment by ScottL — September 17, 2008 @ 9:12 am | Reply

  7. As someone who has a lot of experience in Christian music, I can say with a certain degree of expertise that there is little relationship between someone being a “Christian Artist” and being a Christian. If someone makes good music that the church uses for edification and worship that’s great but there is neither any certainty nor even a probability that the person writing and performing the music is a Christian. And really, that’s OK, because God uses whatever means He thinks best to bring about His good ends. We should never make the mistake of putting men on a pedestal because inevitably, they will fail us. Have great confidence in God and little in men. Especially men that make a living playing guitar or telling jokes, or acting. It’s just common sense and Christian prudence.

    Comment by Christian Theology — September 17, 2008 @ 4:41 am | Reply

  8. It’s timme for you self-righteous holier than thou folk to quit equating gay orientation with sexual desires.
    sex is part of gay or straight but is not the whole picture or the whole person.

    Gay men have love, devotion and commitment to their companions to their loved ones same as men and women do. There is also for gay men hearth, home, hobbies, concerts, movies, careers, the meals together, chores done together, the dog to be walked and fed, grocery shopping, travel together etc.

    I am happy for Ray Boltz, now he can find peace, love, happiness, commitment and devotion with a loving and caring man and he can drop the unbearable burden of trying so desperately hard of trying to make work what no longer can. He has likely soucht out prayer, help from the faith community, Christian counseling, etc.

    Time for the heterosexual Christian community to give him some space and to leave him in peace.

    I have seen so much judging of him and condemnation of him from people who profess to be Christian and who are themselves no less mortal and prone to sin etc than he is.
    Life for a human being can sometimes short with even their pets occasionally outliving them, so Ray has got to do what he’s got to do and keep on not “banging his head against a brick wall” trying to live a life to designed to please “fans”, “friends” and relatives and family who are shocked, judgemental and willing to throw him and his Gospel music away because he now no longer fits the fictitious straight man Ray they were used to.

    Either he entered marriage to despoerately cure being gay, or he just had no clear idea he was gay until years later inspite of occasional unexplainable feelings for men that wouldn’t go away even after being repeatedly pushed aside until it reached a crisis point where he had to get help, any number of things could have happened.

    At least Ray is alive and happy and has finally found the peace he deserves in life after likely years of torment, frantically struggling and desperately praying to get rid of being gay and seeking Christian help all to no avail in the end. Still gay after it all like some men I talked to also tried very, very hard to leave being gay through all the available Christian-bssed routes.

    Ray will not leave God, gay does not mean always an atheist, he still likely believes firmly in God, but as a gay man

    Comment by Morgan — September 17, 2008 @ 1:15 pm | Reply

    • The word “Gay Christian” does not exist. The Bible is Clear. Homosexuality is not just un acceptable but a result of continuous disobedience to God:

      Romans 1: 18-27:

      “18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
      21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

      24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

      26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.”

      In the text above especially Vs 26-27, This aspect is very clear. There is a door of repentance still open though and blessed are they that find that door and enter through it!

      The Christian community loves Ray Boltz very much and that is why they are sad! Sad indeed because they see the destruction ahead for Ray. If the words of Paul to the Romas in the text above are ignored, all of us will pretend that “Gay Christians” exist and it is okay to be one. I beg to differ! You are either gay or a christian. Christianity is not just a religion. It is to be like Christ! Now, Is being gay christlike? ABSOLUTELY NOT and it NEVER will. I pray that Ray acknowledges these truths and comes back to Christ. Jesus will freely forgive. Yes He does.

      Comment by Kenas Otieno — April 12, 2012 @ 6:57 am | Reply

  9. Great insight Doug. I am in the same boat with Ron and it seems like our testimonies mirror each other. I have learned through the years that living for Christ means we are going to experience suffering. A disciple must deny himself.
    Jesus died on the cross to forgive my sins but I must bear my cross and deny myself. That is not a popular message in the church today. We are creating a god in our own image rather than worshiping God for who He is and obeying Him in what He demands. My prayers will be for Ray Boltz to see through this deception and fight the good fight of faith against the enemies lies.

    Comment by Will — September 17, 2008 @ 1:15 pm | Reply

  10. This is probably the most balanced view of what has occurred in Mr. Boltz’s life that I have read. The responses on other blogs have varied widely, from applauding him to outright hatred and everything in between. This article points out that we ALL are sinners. My concerns over Mr. Boltz’s choices are the same as mentioned here: there is no acknowledgement of the SIN. I know I am a sinner, but I have friends who love me enough to tell me when my attitude or actions are out of line with scripture, and I love them for it! I also believe that if Mr. Boltz is truly saved, he has the Holy Spirit of God present in his life, convicting him of sin. I know every time I say or do something even remotely unkind, I feel an instant “check” in my spirit, and I apologize to the person I offended. When I am doing something I know I shouldn’t, I feel that instant discomfort, the Holy Spirit telling me that what I am doing is wrong. I can only ignore it for so long, before I am miserable and have to make it right.

    If Mr. Boltz’s attitude was “This is a sin I am struggling with, and I need people to pray for me and hold me accountable so I can conquer this sin through the power of the Holy Spirit”, that would be understandable to me. It’s never easy to do that (we all have some sin that is a greater temptation for us), but that would demonstrate a submission to the word of God and His Holy Spirit. Instead, the attitude is “This is who God made me to be, so I’m going to live my life that way and be happy.” In the garden, Adam blamed God: “That woman YOU gave me…”; we are seeing the same thing here: “God made me this way”. Our loving Father is not sitting up in heaven saying, “Let me see if I can make this more difficult for those humans; I’ll make them homosexual, then tell them it’s wrong! That will get them!” Our Father loves us and is not a childish taskmaster out to make our lives miserable. We do that on our own when we ignore His Spirit’s guidance! I know that if Mr. Boltz turns to Him and asks for forgiveness and help to fight the temptations, God will be right there, ready and waiting. I will pray diligently for him, but I have to agree with Doug: it’s never happy news when a believer forsakes what he knows to be right.

    Ron: As someone who has been where Ray is, you probably have more authority to speak on this matter than any of us. I commend you for your commitment to be obedient to the Lord; keep running the race, brother, and know that many of us will pray for you. You are a true example of what grace, mercy, and the power of the Holy Spirit can do in a person’s life when they are willing to surrender! Nothing fills the void in each of our souls like Jesus!

    Comment by Marie — September 17, 2008 @ 2:04 pm | Reply

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  12. I believe that homosexuality is a sin and goes against God’s word. I am not going to judge, because that is not my place. I just want to make this comment. If I am wrong about homosexuality and God forgives them and lets them into heaven then I will be the first to apologize and to say I was wrong, but I want to ask this question: What if I am right? I am praying for Mr. Boltz and that God’s will be done in his life.
    God Bless

    Comment by Clayton — September 17, 2008 @ 4:45 pm | Reply

    • And what if you are wrong and there is no heaven? No apologizing? Just your stance to take away the happiness and rights of gay people here on Earth.

      Comment by Anonymous — April 3, 2012 @ 6:03 pm | Reply

  13. “i would think that he would be so grieved by this, that he would take his own life before he would make this public.” – joann

    It’s this kind of comment that helps convince me traditionalist Christians take wrong stance on this issue. Most simply use nicer words than joann’s honest confession.

    Comment by J.Random — September 17, 2008 @ 4:58 pm | Reply

  14. Great article Doug! I am glad you are taking a stand on this. Ray is living in sin. It is a sad shame that he would do such a thing to his former wife and 4 kids. We are living in the last days where God said homosexuality would be widespread and accepted by more people. Making this sadder is he is saying God made him this way. Ray Boltz was a great singer for God and it is a shame that he is living in this sin so those who attack Christianity now have more ammo. Let’s all just pray for him to leave his sin and not be deceived anymore by our enemy satan.

    Comment by D.J. — September 17, 2008 @ 7:16 pm | Reply

  15. This is just so sad. I honestly really feel for his wife and family. I believe the Word of God is clear on this topic, yet, it seems that making Jesus Lord over EVERYTHING is more than some are willing to do. We are living in a time that God is going to shake everything and everyone that can be shaken and He’s starting with the church. The seperation of the wheat and tares has begun and this is just the start. My prayers go out to Ray and his family. May God continue to call to him and may he be able to lay down the idol of self and sin and once again exchange it for the things of God. I pray comfort for his family and wife and that many believers come around them and encourage them.

    Comment by honeybees — September 17, 2008 @ 7:54 pm | Reply

  16. I think its an obomination to God,why did God destroy Sodom and Gamorah?…because it was full of SIN,and a part of that sin was homosexuality,God is not pleased with any sin and when we as Christians try to label the sin and make it sound ok it doesn’t make God too pleased…SIN IS SIN!

    Comment by Colby — September 17, 2008 @ 7:59 pm | Reply

  17. Good gravy!!! Does this man have to spend the rest of his life standing on his head, turning inside out, stomach churning, forever choking on his own emotional and spiritual vomit?? You people take positions so lacking in understanding and compassion, repeating the same old chant over and over about SIN like a parrot that doesn’t know anything else or like a broken record.

    UNTIL ONE OF YOU HAS TO WALK IN HIS SHOES YOURSELF, YOU JUST HAVE NO CLUE AT ALL AND NEVER WILL!!

    You people remind me of wardens in a spiritual prison. That is where you keep the gay man. Isn’t the 33 years he spent trying to pretend to be something and someone he just ain’t enough time wasted out of his life?

    Merely being gay is not a sin same as being merely straight is not a sin.

    Let me ask you people something? Why are there divorces among even straight-arrow Christian conservatives? Seems to me pretty hypocritical of you to dump on a man who has found out that he is gay, when straight Christian people have divorces. Seems you’ve got some fence-mending of your own to do amongst yourselves instead of picking on a man who trying to find his way in life.

    I see that the Bible belt in the USA has more divorces than in some of the more llberal parts of our country wonder why that is.

    Comment by Morgan — September 17, 2008 @ 9:21 pm | Reply

  18. I’m not sure what a “traditionalist Christian” is J.Random, but your comment shows a judgmental attitude and prejudice against Christians that seems identical to what you are trying to attack in the first place.

    If you think that thinking that things are wrong is wrong then you can’t tell us we are wrong for thinking it. You judge us for judging and then cry foul when we call you on it because then we are judging you for judging us for judging you? It’s confusing.

    There is no hypocrisy in saying that something is wrong. Hypocrisy is only in doing what you are saying is wrong.

    Human sexuality is as historic a field for ethical judgments and people will always make judgments as to what is, and is not, appropriate in this most sensitive area of human behavior. Few things have as powerful an effect upon the larger community than expressions of sexuality. Therefore the only thing to think about is which philosophy of being human, which understanding of human relationships, and what standards for sexual behavior we are going to adopt.

    I find that those willing to attack the Christian position are rarely willing to provide any alternative that can be measured against the Christian interpretation of sexual ethics. That we shouldn’t judge is not a reason for not judging. It’s just a sentence.

    Whether this is traditional or not seems hardly relevant.

    Comment by Christian Theology — September 17, 2008 @ 5:28 pm | Reply

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  20. Is it dangerous? Absolutely. With choice comes risk.

    But what “standard interpretation” should I adhere to? A Southern Baptist understanding of the Bible? A Catholic understanding of the Bible? An Episcopalian understanding? An Eastern Orthodox understanding? An Assemblies of God understanding? Quaker? Churches of Christ? United Church of Christ? Mennonite? Methodist? Mormon?

    My own quirky, personal understanding of the Bible, cobbled together from any or all of the above, the pieces chosen on the basis of my upbringing / local community / reason / sense of aesthetics?

    Where’d you get your Bible understanding? How did you choose that one over all the other Bible understandings available? Did you use some “starting” understanding of the Bible to understand the rest? How did you choose that “starting” understanding? Did it just “feel” right? Was it “intuitive?”

    By way of contrast to those who do have the One True Understanding Of The Bible on tap, I acknowledge I don’t have an infallible understanding of love. I mess up, I learn, I change, I try again. I learn from the Bible without feeling like I have to worship it. Dangerous? Very much so. But better to risk much on a fallible understanding of Love than to bow to the false gods of the Pharisees.

    Comment by J.Random — September 18, 2008 @ 1:30 am | Reply

  21. How sad. Jesus came so that you might have life. There is no life in sin. The devil comes to kill, steal and destroy. God, help those who are blind and lost in the trap of the enemy. God, allow them to see the truth in love. God does not hate the homosexual, he hates the one who created it! God LOVES you Ray Boltz and all the others who are in this trap of the enemy.

    Comment by Darren — September 18, 2008 @ 2:38 am | Reply

  22. Sinners don’t go to heaven, saints do.

    God delights in the death of His saints. Ps 116:15

    Homosexuals, thieves, adulerers, liars, etc don’t get into heaven, they go to hell.

    Jesus said, Those who love me, obey me.

    Is God Holy?
    Does He command ALL men to repent and turn to the Savior?
    Does God hate sin?
    The devil, your enemy, crouches at your door waiting for you to sin, that he may devour you.
    Can you do ALL things through Christ who strengthens you?
    Why are you still sinning?

    Why is Ray still sinning?
    Because he loves his darkness more than he loves the Light. I pray: he will return to the Lord before God hardens his heart, his godly friends/family will tell him the truth of his impending destruction.

    Comment by johnmcglone — September 18, 2008 @ 2:47 am | Reply

  23. I understand what you are trying to say Colby but we should try to be a little more constructive. Saying sin is sin is a little like saying tooth paste is tooth paste. It might be true but it is not very helpful.

    Comment by Christian Theology — September 17, 2008 @ 9:10 pm | Reply

  24. Christian Theology –

    You seem to be arguing against someone else. I’m not speaking against judgment in general. I’m speaking against this particular judgment.

    I used the phrase “traditionalist Christian” because, thank God, I know there are many Christians that have a different stance because they are willing to re-examine tradition. But I admit that “traditional” isn’t the greatest choice of word, since some Christians like the Quakers have a long and distinguished tradition and yet they don’t take this stance.

    Alternative arguments are plentiful if you look. A growing number of Christian denominations bless committed, faithful same-sex relationships. Quakers, UCC, Episcopalians, and of course MCC. Of course, some will cry “they’re not really Christians,” but I don’t really buy into the authority of those who would make such a claim. I recognize followers of Christ by their love, not their dogma.

    I notice you don’t have any words of judgment for joann, who thinks being gay is so shameful that it justifies suicide. Hmm.

    Comment by J.Random — September 17, 2008 @ 9:43 pm | Reply

  25. Morgan,

    Your attack is a little vicious, insulting really, don’t you think? I always wonder why people can’t engage in civil discussions about things like this, but so often communication degrades into mere verbal attacks.

    You might want to think about trying to find the possible merit in someone else’s point of view before trying to find fault in them for having a position you disagree with.

    As for divorce, your argument is Tu quoque and logically fallacious. There is no relevant relationship between the divorce rate and the subject of the post. More, the two problems are very different from each other. Both are problems but only incidentally related.

    Doug did not attack anyone here. He simply provided an Evangelical understanding of the matter at hand. The Evangelical understanding considers the conscious choice to embrace a mode of life that is out of concert with Christian ethical teachings to be a moral problem.

    Notice that you are the only one providing a heaping helping of condemnation.

    And if you are very concerned about divorce, I applaud your sentiment. It should be much more rare than it is and should occur only upon adequate moral grounds. I do not think that Ray Boltz had adequate moral grounds to abandon his family, so I’m sure you will agree with me that this was a profound moral problem that we can talk about and come to some kind of a reasonable conclusion.

    Comment by Christian Theology — September 17, 2008 @ 9:49 pm | Reply

  26. J.Random,

    “I recognize followers of Christ by their love, not their dogma.”

    The problem is that this is a dogma. Just the most dangerous kind. One without either definition nor a standard for interpretation. In this, “love” becomes whatever one wants to think it is.

    It is the most stringent dogmatic stand. You imply that because you judge one’s adherence to Christianity on the basis of their love, and the only ones that are showing that love are people that think the way you do, no one but your loving group are Christians.

    So you judge all on the basis of their obedience to your moral standard. It is pure Dogma. It just doesn’t seem to be good dogma.

    Comment by Christian Theology — September 17, 2008 @ 10:11 pm | Reply

  27. Thanks, Doug, for handling this surprising news with eloquence and a proper understanding of God’s Word.

    Further, I thank you for pointing out how sin enters and conquers our minds. I am reminded that there are many instances that I don’t “take every thought captive.” It is because of preventative measures such as these that we can live at all in God’s grace.

    Now, I am torn between whether or not to continue to listen to Ray Boltz’s music. Theologically sound as most of them are, I find them to be constant encouragements for me (Rey Boltz was the first cd I ever owned). On the other hand, I don’t know what to think of them in light of the recent “fruit” that Ray has shown (Matthew 7:16). Perhaps it is better to think of the truth that is expressed in the songs themselves. Perhaps it is better to not judge them on account of their creator.

    It is something I will have to think about.

    Comment by Pancho — September 18, 2008 @ 5:43 am | Reply

  28. Does anyone else see the big problem here? Ray Boltz was struggling with this for 30+ years! Really, it would have been better for Ray if he had been a porn addict, or just got a divorce, or even just had an affair- because then the Christian community would have been much more likely to show him our ‘love’ and ‘compassion’. But a gay? No, he is now a branded, marked man, destined for hell, unless we ‘pray’ for him. I think that the Christian community is also going to be judged for our treatment of homosexuals-how many people will never meet Jesus because of our hate? I believe it’s wrong, but you know what? People still struggle with it. Our society has always been intolerant of homosexuality, and Christians should have been at the front, offering love and forgiveness and restoration- instead we carry the largest torches and pitchforks. The sad thing is that Ray Boltz struggled with this for over 30 years, probably because he knew the ‘grace’ that fellow Christians would give him. So when you’re ‘praying’ for Ray Boltz, also pray for yourself, that God would allow your own prejudices to melt away and see gays as they are- normal people whom God loves, and who are in need of our Jesus.

    Comment by Jason — September 18, 2008 @ 2:44 pm | Reply

  29. Homosexuals are sinners just like fornicators and adulterers. God says ” Go and sin no more” and “repent and turn from your sin”. Not embrace your sin and be happy. Many Christian churches are compromising God’s word. Sin is sin. Part of following Christ is agreeing with God about sin and turning from your sin. Many today make excuses.They want to change what God says is sin into a life style choice. Sexual sin is rampant today.
    If we ask for God’s forgiveness, then God for gives us. But if we don’t believe it’s sin then we won’t ask for forgiveness. God said Those who practice sin won’t enter The Kingdom of Heaven. That’s any sin. This warning from God was written for believers.

    Comment by Linda — September 18, 2008 @ 5:26 pm | Reply

  30. I’d like to throw my two cents in here, if I may, and post my thoughts on some of the comments that have been made on this blog:
    1.”Now I do not claim to have insight into the exact reasons why Mr. Boltz decided to grab on to his lusts and forsake his obedience to the Lord” After 33 years of struggling with what I’m certain were overwhelming feeligs and undoubtedly crying out to God constantly to “cure” him of this “affliction” I believe that anyone would feel that, if he/she was expecting God to answer their prayer, after 33 years he/she would come to the conclusion that this prayer was not going to be answered and, weary of the fight, decided to accept what they obviously are.
    2.”Yes it is hard struggling against the assaults of such strong sinful lust, and it may cause you unhappiness for a time, but you have not yet resisted to bloodshed, and it would be better to enter the kingdom of heaven after a long and unpleasant fight, than to go to hell on beds of ease.” So, 33 years is not long enough in regard to the comment “it may cause you unhappiness for a time”? How long would Mr. Boltz have had to be unhappy to satisfy this comment? For the remainder of his life? I thought that a believer’s walk in the Lord was supposed to be one of great joy and fulfillment?
    3.”Come home Mr. Boltz. Go back to your family if they will have you, and start fighting against sin again, for any temporary happiness you think you now have will be short lived.” So, Ray, convinced that he is a homosexual, should return to his wife and expect her to, one, take back a man that is a professed homosexual and, two, take him back with the knowledge that there will be no sexual relationship between them and, if there would be, would he be imagining the unthinkable?
    3.”i just can’t help but wonder how can he justify this behavior.
    he should have sought Godly counsel, so as to honor and respect his family and the family of God” So many, many assumptions. I can guarantee, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that Ray cried out to God constantly to remove these feelings. And, if he would have sought christian counsel, he would have been told to pray, pray, pray and God would deliver him from this affliction. And, if God did not (and I am not convinced that gay people who claim that God “cured” them of their homosexuality are being 100% genuine) Ray would have been told that he was not strong enough in his faith.
    4.”how come he is not willing to ask God’s forgiveness?” How do we know he hasn’t done this? And, what would that accomplish, anyway? Would Ray suddenly be released from these feelings?
    5.”Jesus died on the cross to forgive my sins but I must bear my cross and deny myself.” So Mr. Boltz is to go to his grave denying to himself one of the most powerful desires known to mankind?
    6.”If Mr. Boltz’s attitude was “This is a sin I am struggling with, and I need people to pray for me and hold me accountable so I can conquer this sin through the power of the Holy Spirit”, that would be understandable to me.” Oh, come now! If this blogger read an article that christian recording artist Ray Boltz was struggling with homosexual temptation do you not honestly feel that the same condemnation would not occur? What would be the difference?
    7.”I know that if Mr. Boltz turns to Him and asks for forgiveness and help to fight the temptations, God will be right there, ready and waiting.” This comment seems to infer that Ray has not yet sought God’s help in overcoming this. I think I can say without hesitation that this is certainly not the case!
    8.”Good gravy!!! Does this man have to spend the rest of his life standing on his head, turning inside out, stomach churning, forever choking on his own emotional and spiritual vomit??” Great comment, Morgan! My sentiments exactly! How long did this brave man have to wait for his prayers to be answered before he could begin to live again?
    9.”Does anyone else see the big problem here? Ray Boltz was struggling with this for 30+ years! Really, it would have been better for Ray if he had been a porn addict, or just got a divorce, or even just had an affair- because then the Christian community would have been much more likely to show him our ‘love’ and ‘compassion’. But a gay? No, he is now a branded, marked man, destined for hell, unless we ‘pray’ for him.” Jason, well said and dead on correct!

    Comment by Drummer Dave S. — September 18, 2008 @ 5:49 pm | Reply

  31. Drummer Dave,

    I will respond to the sections of your comment that deal directly with my post. As to the others I will let them defend their comments.

    1. I don’t think that anyone should give up the fight after 33 years simply because their prayer has not been answered in the way they hoped it would be, and assume that it never will be. If we read Romans Chapter Seven fighting against sin seems to be an aspect of the Christian life that will most likely go on even unto death.

    2. This one is built upon the same premise as your first one so it doesn’t need much of a response. I will add this though if someone faces unhappiness in one aspect of their life even unto death, it is still “for a time,” and the time spent after death will have been well worth the fight.

    3. That is why I added “If they will have you” after my comment about going home. Even if the marriage is not restored there was a deeper “go home” I was referring to, and that is going home to reconciliation, and reconciliation can happen without re-marriage and sexual relations.

    Doug

    Comment by Doug — September 18, 2008 @ 6:14 pm | Reply

  32. I am extremely saddened over this whole issue. If Ray was a true Christian, then I wonder what Bible he is reading. MINE says homosexuality is a SIN, and an abomination to God.

    I will delete all his songs. I cannot listen to him singing of his love for God, when he is living a lie.

    My goodness, isn’t satin DELIGHTED in this confession. I can just hear him and his demons rolling on the floor and cackling uproariously , saying HA, to God….we got a well known Christian to claim he is a homosexual….

    The Bible says in Galations 6:7,8 “Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life”.

    Comment by Kathy — September 18, 2008 @ 6:39 pm | Reply

  33. Doug,
    I’m honored that you, personally, replied to my comments. Thank you!
    In regard to your comment in response #1 is it realistic to expect someone to die a dejected, unfulfilled man, knowing that after praying year upon year for “deliverance” that God apparently has turned a deaf ear to his prayer? Let’s say that Mr. Boltz lives for another 20 years. Is he to live for that time in the torment that he has been in for the past 33 years? Or does he accept what he is and lives a fulfilled life until he passes?

    Comment by Drummer Dave S. — September 18, 2008 @ 6:46 pm | Reply

  34. Ok, I used to listen to ray boltz, dc talk, steven curtus chapman and other christian artists…. I know for a fact that each one of them have sinned in the eyes of God. How can we say we still can’t listen to Ray Boltz anymore. Are you saying that you are perfect? God specifically talks about this when he says in Matthew 7:3-5, “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.” If anything, we need to listen to his music more because God is the only one that is going to be glorified in this circumstance!

    Comment by David — September 18, 2008 @ 7:07 pm | Reply

  35. Dave,

    Thanks the kindness in your tone. I was glad to respond to your comment and I would be responding to many more if my job didn’t expect me to work so much. :-)

    There are two things I will respond to your question, which is a good one.

    First, I don’t think it would be unreasonable if someone were to live an “unfulfilled life” because God’s word has promised that in this world we will have trouble. Our release from pain, hurt, etc. is in heaven where every tear will be dried.

    Second is the very notion of a fulfilled life. Is a fulfilled life really living in disobedience to God and enjoying the passing pleasures of this life at the expense of our soul? Jesus himself said, For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? (Matt. 16:26). I actually think there can be a deeper fulfillment even in the midst of sorrow. All we have to do is look back to many of the Christians of days gone by. Sometimes depression and struggling against sin was the very tool God uses in them to touch the hearts of other people which can gave them a fulfilled life. It is possible to have the enjoyments of life and very little opposition or sorrow, but that doesn’t make life fulfilled, and vise versa.

    Doug

    Comment by Doug — September 18, 2008 @ 7:18 pm | Reply

  36. What is the big deal? More power to Ray; isn;t honesty the greater virtue? God’s love is higher than the heavens above the earth beyond mine and I certainly wouldn’t condemn Ray; surely, our suffering Saviour with arms stretched out on a cross has more grace than I? Christians need to stop focusing on the supposed “sin’ and like Jesus (with the woman at the well), start focusing on the thirst.

    Comment by Bob — September 18, 2008 @ 9:22 pm | Reply

  37. Bob,

    If someone is thirsty for poison it is never gracious, loving, or helpful to encourage them to drink it up.

    I believe it was Jesus who said, “Go and sin no more.”

    Doug

    Comment by Doug — September 18, 2008 @ 9:49 pm | Reply

  38. Jason,

    Your comment might be needlessly inflammatory. Do you really see what you are describing in Doug’s post? I don’t. You seem to agree with what he says there. Still, restoration is only true when there is a true change of heart.

    You are right in implying that we need to be careful in describing behaviors that are contrary to what the light of scripture brings to such things. Great care and great wisdom go together.

    But what this means is that we are called to be consistent as a prophetic voice to the culture in what we describe as spiritually unhealthy, not that we should walk around blindfolded.

    Comment by Christian Theology — September 18, 2008 @ 3:59 pm | Reply

  39. IN THE BEGINNING GOD CREATED ADAM AND EVE (MAN & WOMAN)! I THINK THAT SO MANY PEOPLE IN THIS WORLD HAVE SUCH A TWISTED MIND WE MUST ALL LIVE AS CLOSE TO GODS WORD AS POSSIBLE. HEAVEN WILL BE A MAGNIFICENT PLACE BUT I AM AFRAID THERE WILL BE FEW THAT FIND IT. EVERYONE NEEDS TO LIVE CLOSE TO GODS WORD AND NOT ADD TO OR TAKE AWAY FROM THE SCRIPTURE. LET’S PRAY FOR RAY AND THAT HE WILL COME BACK TO HIS FAMILY. GOD IS SUCH A FORGIVING GOD.

    Comment by Donna — September 19, 2008 @ 12:34 am | Reply

  40. Linda,

    Obviously, believers will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Really, they already have in a sense, but that’s a different issue. We need to be slow to imply any kind of perfection in either faith or moral performance within the Christian life, because we will exhibit neither. The stories that we have in the Bible often show people of great faith that still have times of great moral failure. Repentance as both a one time event and as a life long process seems crucial to a full orbed understanding of the Christian life.

    Comment by Christian Theology — September 18, 2008 @ 5:52 pm | Reply

  41. To Chris-once you are born again-always born again. The Bible says that nothing can pluck us out of the hand of our Father. We can turn our backs on Him for the rest of our lives & be saved as if by fire…no rewards on the other side. We just basically slide by. That’s not good enough for me. I want those rewards to cast at my Savior’s feet. I long to hear Him say “well done, thou good & faithful servant”. That’s what I’m living for. No, I’m not always happy. God didn’t call us to happiness. He called us to righteousness & holiness. When you give your life to Christ, you are to die to self. You live God’s way or suffer His chastisement. I like this quote: “you can’t make me, but I can be persuaded”. There are times when I have said, “this isn’t worth it. I’m not happy. I want to live my life, my way”. Those are the times when God’s had to persuade me. If you were “once” truly born again, God hasn’t moved. He’s still waiting for you. We back away from Him. I know….I’ve been there…..then I get a good heavenly whippin’ & I’m back on track.

    I was shocked by this tonight in a meeting I was in at church. I pray that the Holy Spirit gets a hold of Ray’s heart mercifully. I pray that he goes running back(assuming he’s saved)to the arms of Christ, the one who suffered & died for our sins. My heart breaks for the homosexuals who have bought into Satan’s lie that it’s a lifestyle and not sin. If Ray is truly born-again, it won’t take too long before he gets that heavenly whippin’ I spoke of earlier. We all need it from time to time. We all need to fall on our faces before All Mighty God & bring Ray & others like him to God’s throne of grace. We need to be on our faces before God for the warped & perverted nation America has become through the lies of Satan.

    God bless Doug, Chris, Ray, & to you all.
    Amy

    Comment by Amy — September 19, 2008 @ 3:53 am | Reply

  42. Joann’s comment sickens me… “i would think that he would be so grieved by this, that he would take his own life before he would make this public.” It’s attitudes like these that has caused so many people of faith to stop calling themselves “Christians,” for people like you have blasphemed Christ’s name. I feel like vomiting after reading all this hate. Thank you to all of you who have written compassionate, understanding posts here. God bless you. At least there are SOME thinking people out there. I have been a Christ Follower for 38 years, and I simply cannot believe that people who love Jesus, and who have the Spirit of the Loving God dwelling within them would speak and believe such hate and lies.

    Please, people… read your Bible with responsibility. Study Scriptures with correct hermeneutics and exegesis. To do anything less is not only irresponsible, but it’s blasphemous and must sadden God greatly. The reality is, based upon the original language, context, and culture, that the Bible does not condemn committed, loving, same-gender relationships. Do your homework.

    I am a lesbian who happens to love Jesus and have a committed relationship with Him. No one has the right to tell me, or Ray Boltz that we are not walking with the Lord, or we are not saved simply because we are living authentically. Sadly, the church still wants us to lie. Hmmm…

    In addition, I, like Ray, considered suicide to be an option for me at one point in my life because of the misguided teachings and spiritual violence from the church and the likes of James Dobson. Thank God, He led me to MANY incredible Bible scholars, theologians, pastors, and even Christian moms & dad’s of gay kids… who helped me to understand that the Bible has been used and misused for centuries to condemn and oppress… it’s never been OK and it’s not OK now. I am alive because of these people of God.

    Two hundred years ago, some people in authority used their interpretation of Scripture to justify the murder of Native Americans… claiming them to be savages. One hundred and fifty years ago, some people in authority used their interpretation of Scripture to justify slavery. One hundred years ago, some people in authority used their interpretation of Scripture to deny women the right to vote, and fifty years ago, some people in authority used their interpretation of Scripture to deny inter-racial couples the right to marry. Today, some people in authority are using their interpretation of Scripture to claim that gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender people are sick & sinful, in need of healing and forgiveness, and should be denied basic civil rights and marriage equality. LEARN FROM HISTORY.

    Gandhi said it best: “I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ.”

    Pray for Ray Boltz for sure. This is a challenging time for him… mostly because of “Christians” who spew hate and condemnation. But pray for yourselves… it seems that you all really need some love, joy, peace and compassion.

    By the way, Carol, Ray’s ex-wife, is doing just fine. And so are the four kids. Sure, it’s hard when a family experiences divorce, but they love each other more than ever! All of them support and love Ray 110% in this journey to authenticity. Carol is Ray’s biggest ally, and for the record, she is standing on the front lines fighting for gay, lesbian, transgender and bisexual equality and inclusion. So don’t assume and don’t SAY that Ray has “abondoned” his wife and family. That is simply not true. Thank God for loving, caring, compassionate Christ Followers like Carol Boltz!

    And on the heterosexual divorce issue… take a look in the mirror, people. Obviously something is broken, otherwise you wouldn’t be divorcing at the rate of 54%, and the highest divorce rate is even in the evangelical Christian community. Hmmm… very interesting, and very sad. We gay people actually strive for a higher standard than that.

    Comment by Maija — September 19, 2008 @ 4:12 am | Reply

    • I cannot believe you! You seriously think God is going to love or even listen to you. Homosexuals and lesbians SHALL NOT ENTER THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN!!!!!! That goes for you too. I don’t know what Bible you are reading ,but the Bible I read CONDEMNS homosexuals and lesbians To HELL. GOD destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah because of all the evil that was in it. GOD is going to destroy this world just like HE did Sodom and Gomorrah, with Hell fire and brimstone. And there were homosexuals and lesbians in Sodom and Gomorrah. Women are supposed to stay at home and take care of their husband and children. The women in the Bile knew their place, under the man. The man was created first, not the woman.She was taken out of his ribs. The people who say that homosexuals,lesbians,bisexuals,and transgender are sinful and will go to Hell if they don’t repent are 100% right and correct . The Bible says so. Do your homework and you’ll find out. I have read the Bible for as long as I can remember an have not anywhere in the Bible have seen where God condones homosexuality,lesbianism,ect…. . ( I read the old KJV)

      Comment by K.Jordan — February 9, 2012 @ 6:10 pm | Reply

      • Thanks the article was dead on with truth.

        Comment by anna — June 19, 2012 @ 12:57 pm | Reply

  43. Jesus loves Ray Boltz straight or gay. Jesus never said anything about homosexuality. I do have concern about his children. However, Ray is now the whole man he was created by God to be. It’s not about happiness, it’s about being a whole person. That doesn’t mean gay men cannot have children and love them. I’m sure he does. But, apparently he was unable to love someone as much as Christ loved him until he admitted he was gay. I know the “organized” church will never let him sing in their church again. That’s their problem. I believe God will use Ray in ministry somewhere, somehow. Blessings to Ray.

    Comment by Bob — September 19, 2008 @ 4:13 am | Reply

  44. This is the best article I have seen on this. I have enjoyed Ray Boltz’ music for some time now and so I was so sad to hear about this. At first hearing, I just said I would pray for him (and I will), but I was made sadder still to learn that he has made the decision to leave his wife and family and go to live with his homosexual lover.

    As has been said, we are all sinners and fall short…we all know that. But, what I have come to is that Ray knows what he is doing is wrong, but has decided to go on with it anyway. He is now perverting the word of God by saying it is ok because this is how God made him.

    So, as he stands before those left who will listen to him, he is saying to that other homosexual out there who is struggling…that this really is ok. You can do your thing and it is ok, because this is what will make you happy. He is a living example for Satan to use to draw others away from God and onto the wrong track.

    Yes, we all sin. But, we have to be truly sorry and repent of our sin. I don’t believe we can continually commit any act of sin over and over without dire consequences. My pastor has taught us that we can do something we know is sin, and we get pangs of guilt… (prodding by the Holy Spirit that this is wrong). We can do it yet again, and feel that same nudging that this is wrong. But, if we continue to do it over and over and over…we feel that nudging less and less until we are so far away from God, that we no longer feel that and that is a dangerous place to get to.

    I will pray for Ray and hope that one day he does come back to Jesus and repent, as we all must do. I have decided I can no longer listen to his music..not out of judgment, but just because it is hard for me to hear him now. I don’t know exactly why, but I can’t. I am fussy about who I allow to minister to me, and once I see anything that tells me that their ministry is not Biblical, I can no longer listen because I want to keep myself as close to what God teaches us through His word as I can. I don’t want to allow “worldly” thinking to take space in my mind and heart, so I have to put him aside, but will pray for him and his family.

    I hope one day to see him come back and I hope when and if he does, that the Christian community will welcome him with open arms, back to the fold.

    One thing I really do not want to see is that hateful type of judgement that seems to come out at times like these… We can be sad and we can love him in Christ and we can pray for him. I think that is our job here and leave the judgement as to whether he will go to Heaven or Hell to God. He can still handle the job. :)

    God bless you all and thanks for a very balanced article. I am going to save it because there is much more in it that teaches. I will check out the rest of this site.

    Thank you.
    MaryK

    Comment by Mary Kilbride — September 19, 2008 @ 4:15 am | Reply

  45. Excellent article. The bottomline is NOT ‘our happiness,’ but our love for and obedience to Jesus Christ as BOTH Lord and Saviour.
    I pray for Ray to repent and do right by GOD, … and especially pray for his devastated family. – what a horrible shock that must be to all of them.

    To willfully embrace ANY kind of sinful lifestyle is a betrayal of the Lord and the life He calls us to.

    Comment by Len Hummel — September 19, 2008 @ 9:19 am | Reply

  46. Maija,
    May I be so bold as to ask you what your resource is for knowing that Carol Boltz is doing fine and is, in fact, standing up for the gay population? Do you know the Boltz’s personally? If what you posted is true, and I hope it is, I say “GO, CAROL!”. But, if what you stated about Carol Boltz and the children is based on hearsay or rumor then I feel we had better think twice before posting something like this on a public forum, especially a christian based one! The christian community, I’m sure, will say that Carol is enabling Ray and that her walk in the Lord must also not be genuine. If what you posted regarding her is based on anything but 100% positive knowledge that this is true it certainly is not fair in any way to Carol OR the children. They will be condemned right along with Ray. Guarantee it!

    Comment by Drummer Dave S. — September 19, 2008 @ 11:31 am | Reply

  47. Love is GODS best.. for His GLory.. for me.
    This lifestyle is not GODS best for Ray, for his beautiful family or for His Wondrous God.
    For we, as believers, to suggest a physical death to someone who has already assualted and grieved the Holy Spirit, The Father and the Sin that the Son of GOD, Jesus died for.. is not theJesus ‘take’ on this. He said Love the Lord GOD with all your heart soul and mind. Love your neightbor as yourself. ..So Ray had “gotten” it. The words of his songs cried out. He struggled. He succumbed to the sin. Jesus did not murder the woman at the well.. Let us speak into His Life.. Lord bring Him back into your pure honest love. Give him the peace of being in your love… wanting the very best for Your kingdom Father and for himself.
    We are to pray and to intercede for our fallen
    brothers and sister. Never place yourself above anyone. That is to say you are your own GOD. There are three kingdoms… GODS SELF and the
    Kingdom of darkness. Jesus died for SELF and the Kingdom of Darkness. Either you believe or you do not. There is only one KINGDOM that reigns. The kingdom of the King of the Universe.
    keeponpraisinhim Psalm 147:1-5

    love that he will not look to another man (or woman) bu only to you.

    Comment by Cathie — September 19, 2008 @ 3:42 pm | Reply

  48. # 8…Morgan…
    I would like to answer some of your observations (?). First I would like to share a fact with you. A very good friend of mine who is an Orthodox Jewish man told me that the ‘word’ ‘homosexual’ is not in the Jewish Bible (our old testament) only ‘homosexual acts’. Homosexuality is an act of Sodomy. It is not a belief, an uncontrollable choice or a preference. God who does not lie said so…not me. God who created man to procreate and be intimate with a woman made it very clear. The Bible tells us that it is lust…lust kills, love nurtures. We are deceived when we are drawn away by our own lust. There must be a measure for truth. There is . It is the Word of God. It tells us that a man must NOT lie with another man anymore than a man should lie with a beast. Yet there are those whose lusts have deceived them into condoning this abomination also. The writer, Doug is correct. It is not about our ‘happiness’. What should I do if my friend wants happiness with my husband, or a man down the street wants ‘happiness’ with a young girl/boy? Is it their right??? No. This is not ‘holier than thou’ thinking. It is obedience to the Word living. We all must do it to walk in the fellowship of the Holy Spirit…and Morgan I have found that when I am not walking in fellowship with Jesus, I too have felt depressed and worse…but restoration through repentance has always brought peace. I do not judge my brother act as sin, the Word does. I am praying for him to be restored to a committed love to Jesus. My heart is broken for his deception. The Word tells us that if the days were not shortened, even the very elect would be deceived. Our enemy was able to deceive 1/3 of the angels who were in the presence of God, how could we even think we can resist him on our own. We can’t, but we the Word tells us ‘greater is He who is in us than he (satan) who is in the world…We have the victory if hold on. I am holding on. Linda

    Comment by linda.gratefulone — September 19, 2008 @ 5:46 pm | Reply

  49. Hi Maija,

    I would like to hear your exegesis on Leviticus 18:22, namely what it is the verse is speaking of and it’s relationship (if any) to verses 24-25 where defilement is mentioned. Also, If you could give a general explaination of Romans 1:18-32 and what Paul is addressing, but specifically what verses 26-27 are speaking of. Certainly would love to hear it.

    Thanks,

    Comment by Clay — September 19, 2008 @ 5:55 pm | Reply

  50. To # 25…J. Random
    Dear J.
    With all due respect, I understand your delima and confusion on what/which/when translation of the Bible to use…there are many to choose from…but I don’t think that is really the problem. I think the problem lies in obeying the one we choose. Some doctrines of the Word are basic. The Bible is complete cover to cover. God is so concerned that we get His message that He has left many witness for us: the 1st witness is that even the “heavens will shout His glory” , Psalm 19, we only have to walk outside to hear Him,(His Creation!) 2nd He left a testimony in Jacob. The Jewish people are here so that we can know the how real and faithful the God of Abraham is…and third is the written manual for those who need more convincing and instruction (the Bible)…we probably all fall into that last category. 4th He has left His Holy Spirit, that when we become believers are indwelt by Him…to convince us (and the rest of the world) of sin and turn our hearts back to Him. And He has said that this truth is written on every heart so that we are without excuse. So not being sure about which “standard interpretation should I adhere to?” will not/can not be an excuse. Linda 2

    Comment by linda.gratefulone — September 19, 2008 @ 6:53 pm | Reply

  51. To Jason…#32…you said, “Does anyone else see the big problem here?”

    Jason, what is the big problem? Is it sin (actually the choice to give in to sin) in Ray Boltz’s life or the Church’s reaction to it? I think there may be two big problems here: 1) a Christian man’s choice to leave his wife and live in an ungodly manner 2) the difficulty the believers have in dealing with it…a) whether to embrace him and wish him the best and not criticize his own personal space or b) speak lovingly yet steadfastly what the Word says about such actions.
    Jason, do you believe in absolutes? If you do then you must believe that if God said don’t do it…you don’t. Do you think God told a man not to commit adultery because he wanted to limit his sexual satisfaction? I don’t. I think God (not to presume to know the mind of God) said that because as our Creator, Father, He knew all of the repercussions of a man being unfaithful to himself and his wife/family.

    I think what we are seeing here is man/woman at war with our two natures (if we have been born again and received a new nature through faith in Christ). And I feel that our sexual drives are about the strongest we have. Ray said he struggled with this over 30 years. It is not over for him. It is not about partners, now he has male partner, don’t you think there is a great possibility that he may struggle again and want ‘another’ partner? What should/will he do then??? No, I believe it is about knowing what is right and doing it…either for ‘rights’ sake or because the cost of not doing it too high.

    Maybe as Christians we should talk about our struggles more, if we knew/understood that others are struggling in the same way, we might be encouraged enough to realize that we are in a battle for our lives. And we are not alone, we all face the same struggles, our lust, our pride, our hurts. Actually I think the book of James covers it pretty well.

    I am a married woman of 28 years. I know the temptations (some anyway) that my husband faces each day as he walks out our door, at work, on the computer, on the t.v. and sometimes even in Church. I pray for him …a lot, I talk to him and I do what I can to meet his needs, emotionally, physically and spiritually…I am so blessed he has never strayed, by his choice (because his faithfulness is to the Lord first!).

    But women also face temptations. Men are not the only ones… You have to determine in your heart to be faithful…I think that is the key, determining in your heart… that you will be faithful. I am heartsick over this, not because Ray Boltz is famous, but because at one time he professed to love the Lord so passionately and in his present lifestyle he can not be walking in the light, the Bible says it is so. He may speak the words, and because God’s Word will accomplish it’s purpose, it may appear ‘religious’, but if it does not line up with what God tells him/us to do…it is hollow and empty. And I think he will come to realize this… I pray so. Linda 2

    Comment by linda.gratefulone — September 19, 2008 @ 7:41 pm | Reply

  52. I am a gay man who came out at 49 after 28 years in a straight marriage. I share many of the feelings of Ray, and understand what he is going through. Thoughout my life (I’m 61 now), I have followed Jesus, and the Spirit is more active in my life now than ever. You are judging a man based upon your interpretation of God’s word, and you have every right to base your own personal moral values, beliefs, and principles on your understanding of God’s Word and how He comes into your heart. You do not, however, have the right to pass judgement on another believer. I attended a concert by him just one week ago, and his witness is still alive in my heart. I “weep” for him as well … weeping for joy that he can now be free to spread God’s Word with honesty and understanding. Praise God for leading Ray in his life!

    Comment by Stan Lyford-Jones — September 19, 2008 @ 9:44 pm | Reply

  53. Stan,

    First, The article never says Ray Boltz is not a Christian.

    Second, You seem to miss the self-refuting nature of your comment. When you tell me that I cannot use my interpretation of scripture to pass judgment on another believer, you are actually using your interpretation of scripture to pass judgement on me. You are telling me that I am wrong in what I am doing and you are using your interpretation of scripture to do so.

    Doug

    Comment by Doug — September 19, 2008 @ 10:14 pm | Reply

  54. Doug I agree with you 100% I also pray that Ray will turn his life around and relize that the way he is living his life is indeed sin !!

    Comment by Mabel — September 19, 2008 @ 10:51 pm | Reply

  55. To Maija
    What a great post. You spoke so well. Bravo!
    As to your source regarding the Boltz family, the Blade interview supports all that you said about Carol and the kids.
    To those of you who wonder what some of us gay Christians have to say about many of the “clobber” passages in Leviticus, Romans, etc, read the book “The Children are Free”. If you can be open minded, you may find some surprises. By the way, in the Bible it states the “sin” of Sodom was inhospitality, not homosexuality. The people of Sodom did not want to make love to the angels, they wanted to rape and humiliate them. Look at Lot’s solution, it’s incredible! As Maija says, do your homework.

    Comment by Stan Lyford-Jones — September 19, 2008 @ 11:44 pm | Reply

  56. Hi Stan,

    I was asking for an exegesis of a passage of scripture not reading material that I must be open minded to find surprises in. No offense, I am sure the book you mentioned is great, but since we are talking about God’s word and Maija mentioned exegeting it and that she had done her homework, I just wanted to read her handling of it or yours if you’d like to take a stab at it.

    Comment by Clay — September 20, 2008 @ 12:45 am | Reply

  57. I do not know what difference, if any, these blogs make. That being said – as a pastor myself, I am honest with my God (who knows anyway) and myself about my desires and temptations in all areas, not only in the area of a sinful thought life (there are more desires than physical). We all have them without exception. Jesus Christ is my Lord. By His act of sacrifice and my free will to choose to accept it, he is my LORD. I cannot call him “Lord” and “Master” and live for my own satisfactions by my own rules. Of course many sins are temporarily gratifying, that’s why we are tempted to commit them. Abraham denied himself the “PLEASURES of sin”. Many, GLBTs declare that they are discriminated against and “hated” by Christians. When Christians communicate our belief that homosexuality is a sin against God, not a spontaneous fall that we all make, but a cognizant choice to accept and live a lifestyle that God clearly spoke against, we are slammed and hated and verbally spat upon. I am not Ray Boltz’s judge. That is between he and God. But does that mean I am without opinion? No. My opinion (which we are ALL entitled to) is that you cannot call someone “Lord” if they are not the master of your life. Scripture can be bent and twisted to condone most any sin. For the record, someone stated that the Sodomite sin was being inhospitable, that they did not want to have sex with the angels, but to rape and degrade them. The word used is “Yada’” which is not a root word for rape but for an intimate sexual act. The Sodomites wanted to have sex with them and not to rape them solely for the violence of the act. My bottom line is that my flesh loved getting high, getting drunk and partying with women. But because Christ is my LORD, I denied (and continue) to deny MYSELF the things that please MY flesh. It can’t be all bout ME if I give lordship of my life to someone else.

    Comment by JeffnKx — September 20, 2008 @ 4:00 am | Reply

  58. My heart is grieved over Ray Bolyz confession. We can only pray that this sin that has plagued him for so long can somehow be rejected, repented of, and a restoration can take place. I know the chances are very slim but we can pray anyhow.

    Comment by Dave Mitchell — September 20, 2008 @ 12:02 pm | Reply

  59. It seems as if my heart is so burdened for Mr. Boltz. I wake up praying for him. I just watched his video of “The Anchor Holds”. It has ministered hope to me many times. Now that is my prayer for him, that his anchor would hold during this storm…I have been thinking about his wanting “happiness”. I wouldn’t think he could be too happy right now. No one can be happy serving two Masters, you will love the one and hate the other. And because he names the name of Christ, I know that God will treat him as a beloved son…He will discipline His son that he (Ray) may return to Him. One good thing about this ‘coming out’, and God tells us that He will cause all things to work together the for the good to those who are His,(love Him and called according to His purpose) is that Mr. Boltz is probably receiving more prayer support (power to resist temptation) that he ever could have in any other situation. Linda 2

    Comment by linda.gratefulone — September 20, 2008 @ 4:52 pm | Reply

  60. Clay,

    I would like to hear your exegesis on the REST of Leviticus that no one else in this country follows today.

    TNguy

    Comment by TNguy — September 22, 2008 @ 12:04 am | Reply

  61. I’m only amused that somehow the situation which is between a family has played out into the media and our obsession to give our kindness or to judge him …who ever shoved him upon a pedaestal in the first place needs a kick in the pants and to think for 12 seconds that it’ s any of anyones business at all is stupid … That includes ray boles bolts bolze.. come on people pray for ray if you feel led but not because you were stupid enough to worship him in the first place .. The reason we love to see our heros fall is to make us feel better about our sin .I don’t know ray I don’t care about ray any more than I do some guy on the street lets give it a rest ..what ray is going thru is exactly what ray was gonna go thru ..Do you want to know how this will all end ….Stay tuned folks and make sure and watch for further news on your local channel.

    Comment by le barge — September 22, 2008 @ 5:06 am | Reply

  62. TNguy,

    So, because this country doesn’t follow it, it no longer applies? So America is now the standard for righteousness in the world and not the bible? Neither Maija nor Stan seem to follow that logic, they have spoken of exegeting the scriptures properly, which I agree with wholeheartedly, and all I asked was that they comment on 2 passages of scripture. That seems like a reasonable request, where as you want a commentary on the whole book Leviticus from me. If I do it, it will be a book, and you will have to pay to see my exegesis. :)

    Comment by Clay — September 22, 2008 @ 6:35 am | Reply

  63. Doug,
    the news was shocking to me …but what i can say here is that the christian faith is one where we look up to one person,Jesus so that nobody should use his fall as an excuse

    Comment by martin — September 22, 2008 @ 7:33 pm | Reply

  64. Clay, all I’m saying is, your request came across as a challenge of their intelligence when there are so many other things that Christians just ignore. A lot of things in Leviticus are not supported by the church today obviously (shellfish, planting more than one crop in a field, wearing more than one linen, stoning adulterers , forcing a rape-victim to marry her rapist, etc.) So why is it that the condemnation of homosexuals is the only one that still stands? Yes, there are other mentioning homosexuals in the bible. Let me ask this, do ANY of those other references refer to a loving,monogamous, relationship between two men or women? No, they are in the context of rape, orgies, promiscuity, etc. Last time I checked, those aren’t spiritual attributes. I’m just still baffled that people believe that Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed because they were homosexual!!

    Comment by TNguy — September 23, 2008 @ 3:50 am | Reply

    • Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed because of homosexuals ect… .

      Comment by K.Jordan — February 9, 2012 @ 6:20 pm | Reply

  65. TNguy,
    WOW! Very, very, very good point and a something that I had never considered. Christians are very adept at pointing out that those of us who question the content of the Bible seem to pick and choose the verse or chapter that suits the argument we are presenting. However, your observation of the many things referenced in the Bible that are not required in this day and age to live a Christian life is HUGE! And you are dead on right; why, out of those many, many things, is homosexuality consistently referenced time after time after time?
    Here’s another observation and I don’t know enough about theology to make an intelligent conclusion and for that I apologize. My wife and I went to see Ray in concert several times and he always had an alter call towards the end of the concert that many people responded to and gave their lives to God. Since it is now obvious that Ray was a hypocrite and a deceiver all along and was not “right” with God when those people responded to his salvation message were they truly saved?

    Comment by Drummer Dave S. — September 23, 2008 @ 5:29 pm | Reply

  66. I have been offline for a few days… and just catching up with all the comments here. Wow.

    Drummer Dave… I know Carol peronally, and have spent time with her on the “front lines,” standing up for equality and inclusion for gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender (GLBT) people. So yes, it is first hand knowledge. In addition, we keep in touch with Carol on occasion, and a close friend of ours is a filmmaker, working on a documentary, and she is in close contact with Ray, and we keep up with him through her. Here’s her comment from yesterday, after having met with Ray and filmed his concert in Indiana over the weekend:

    “Ray performed to perfection at his first official concert after the news was released 2 weeks ago. I am happy to report that the Spirit was alive and well in the sanctuary and God was praised. Ray and the MCC Choir brought the house down! It was an amazing experience and Ray is one of the sweetest, most sincere and incredibly talented Christian men Ive been privileged to meet and interview for the Documentary film Im working on. I wish everyone of you and those within the Christian community, the ex-gay community and the gay community could have been there. It was truly moving. Ray has a whole new mission field and it was incredible to see the Spirit working so mightily through Him. God has BIG plans for our friend Ray Boltz and all of us!”

    Stan, thank you posting your story and your comments! Love ALWAYS prevails, and TRUTH always outshines the darkess of lies and misinformation. “The Children Are Free” is a great book by Jeff Minor and John Tyler Connoley (both pastors) is an excellent resource. My spouse and I spent a week with Tyler Connoley in New Mexico while we were traveling around America in an effort to “engage hearts & minds, create authentic connections, and transcend differences that separate us.” Both he and Jeff Minor are brilliant Bible Scholars and men of God.

    Linda (#51), you wrote, “I am heartsick over this, not because Ray Boltz is famous, but because at one time he professed to love the Lord so passionately and in his present lifestyle he can not be walking in the light, the Bible says it is so.” As I mentioned before, who are you to assume that Ray suddenly doesn’t love the Lord passionately, and is not walking in the light? That is not up to you to decide. Quite the opposite is true… for Ray and for me. When we live our truth and embrace who God made us to be, we can finally live in that freedom, joy and peace that passes all understanding. My relationship with the Lord grew into one ever so much sweeter and deeper when I stopped trying to be someone I wasn’t, and started living my truth. If you are heartsick over Ray’s truth, you are hurting only yourself.

    Clay, (#49) You asked for “my” exegesis of Leviticus. The following is not my work, but comes from a highly respected PhD, theologian, bible scholar, author, pastor and professor of Old Testament and Hebrew at a well known theological seminary in KY. This woman is a very good friend of ours, and she happened to officate our marriage in 2004, along with another PhD friend, who is a Baptist minister, bible scholar, and Professor/Director of one of the nations two doctoral programs in human sexuality.

    Lev 18:22; 20:13 – “Abominations” 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. Lev.20:13 If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death; their blood is upon them.

    The Leviticus laws were intended only for Israel. Primary concern was for Israel to remain holy and identifiable from other cultures/faiths. Both texts speak of a man lying with another man as with a woman. No mention of lesbianism. Why not? Again, concern for procreation. Male-male sexual relations “wasted seed” as did “masturbation.” Female-female sexual relations did not. Also, these are men who the text assumes are naturally heterosexual, doing something against their “nature” and rather than an expression of love in a mutual relationship. Another possibility is that the disgrace here would be that one of the men would have to “play the part of a woman,” which was the greatest humiliation for males in a patriarchal culture.

    Much ado has been made about the labeling of male-male sexual activity as an “abomination.” The Hebrew word is to’ebah and it usually has to do with ritual impurity or with idolatry. Perhaps it was related to the prohibition of participation in fertility cults of other cultures. To keep this label in perspective, it is important to consider what other behaviors are called a to’ebah: wearing polyester/cotton garments or eating foods which contain both meat and dairy products (e.g., cheeseburger).

    Besides, Leviticus was not a pick and choose legal buffet. One must follow all the laws or none of them. Interestingly, Christians claim that the laws of Leviticus are no longer binding, but those who espouse anti-gay teachings refuse to let go of this one, even though they do not adhere to the other 600+ biblical laws.

    Romans 1:26-27 – “unnatural relations”

    For this reason God gave them up to degrading passions. Their women exchanged natural intercourse for unnatural, 27 and in the same way also the men, giving up natural intercourse with women, were consumed with passion for one another. Men committed shameless acts with men and received in their own persons the due penalty for their error. [NRSV, italics added]

    This text is confusing all the way around. Paul is describing what happens to persons of faith who turn to idols and follow other religions. He describes one result of this unfaithfulness in the above verses. The Greek phrase (see italicized word), para physin, is better translated as “unconventional” or “unusual”. Paul uses same phrase in 1 Cor 11:14 in referring to men with long hair, something that today we probably do not see as being “sinful.” The behaviors described in this text (i.e., sexual orgies, etc.) probably were connected to practices by Greek religions, which Paul deemed “pagan.” These people were guilty of idolatry, and thus their behavior became unconscionable: orgies, envy, gossip, etc. Again, this refers to heterosexuals going against their natural orientation due to their worship of idols. It has nothing to do with the natural physical expressions of love and intimacy by GLBT persons.

    Again, I keep going back to Joann’s comment (#2), “i would think that he would be so grieved by this, that he would take his own life before he would make this public.” I still can’t believe that someone professing the name of Jesus Christ would think such venom… let alone WRITE such in a blog. Shame on you Joann. SHAME ON YOU! My close firends, Mary Lou and Bob Wallner, lost their lesbian daughter to suicide in 1997 due to the false teachings of the church and James Dobson. Anna hung herself. Their life has never been the same, as you can well imagine. They did their homework, and now travel throughout the nation speaking in churches and other venues about the consequences of homophobia. Their story has touched and SAVED countless numbers of lives… mine included. (see http://www.teach-ministries.org) Joann, you would do well to read their story. Jesus weeps over people like you who wish people dead rather than celebrating their truth and freedom in Jesus Christ. The blood of GLBT people who have killed themselves is on your hands, Joann. I pity you.

    Comment by Maija — September 23, 2008 @ 5:34 pm | Reply

  67. TNGuy,

    I was responding to this comment by Maija “Please, people… read your Bible with responsibility. Study Scriptures with correct hermeneutics and exegesis. To do anything less is not only irresponsible, but it’s blasphemous and must sadden God greatly. The reality is, based upon the original language, context, and culture, that the Bible does not condemn committed, loving, same-gender relationships. Do your homework.”

    I think my comment was appropriate and I want to state that in no way am I challenging her intelligence. I want to read her exegesis. I have heard the arguments similiar to what you have said above, but I want to see the text written and then a commentary on the text next to it. In this way we all have reference to it. That is what I do in my articles and I was just asking the same of Maija. I certainly meant no disrespect or insult in making the challenge.

    Comment by Clay — September 23, 2008 @ 6:32 pm | Reply

  68. Good article Doug. I like what you wrote about happiness. Ray Boltz’s philosophy reflects the postmodern mindset so well. Let’s assume that one can be born gay. That is not an excuse to be gay as much as being born with certain other types of predispositions is not an excuse to be those things either. It is a matter of choice. Yes there are certain psychological factors that create an environment for homosexuality. But still it is a matter of responsibility and being willing to submit to the Lordship of Christ.

    Dr. Dwight Hunt

    Comment by Dwight Hunt — September 24, 2008 @ 1:53 am | Reply

  69. Dr. Dwight Hunt,

    How dare you make such claims? Are you a homosexual? Do yo have any idea what it’s like to be one? From what I can tell, No. If you are, then shame on you. So how can you say that it’s all psychological? I had a perfect childhood. No deficits whatsoever. Had plenty of male role models and my mother was not over-bearing nor was she absent. I can remember being gay from 8 years old. 8 YEARS OLD! It’s always been a part of who I am. The only “choice” made was the choice to accept who I am and stop killing myself inside. You say that we use the “postmodern mindset” but have you ever thought that the “premondern mindset” is out dated?

    Comment by TNguy — September 24, 2008 @ 2:00 pm | Reply

  70. I remember being a Cub Scout leader and one of the boys in my pack constantly asking me during a camping trip if he could shower with me. He even stood outside the outdoor latrine while I was using it and asked me if he could come in with me. This boy was probably 7 or 8 years old, not nearly old enough, I feel, to “choose” his obvious attraction to me. “Oh, he probably had a boyhood “crush” on you because you were an authority figure and grew out of it eventually” I can here some say. Maybe, but I’m thinking probably not. I’m not sure what this boy grew to be but I know that he was the only one out of probably 100 or so boys at that camping trip that acted this way. I’ve read many articles where people that have grown up to be gay have said they knew at a very early age that they were “different”. I said it before and I’ll say it again; with the anxiety and shame that usually accompanies someone’s realization that they are attracted to the same sex, the stigma AND the real potential for their physical harm why would ANYONE in their right mind CHOOSE TO LIVE THIS LIFE STYLE???? It’s not like someone says to themselves at a certain point in their life “Hmm, let’s see. I have the choice to be attracted to the opposite sex or my own gender. Gee, I think I’ll lead a much more fulfilling life if I choose my own gender.” The majority of gay people that I know live a life a secrecy because they know how most of society will view them; as freaks! They live dual lives; one that the public sees and the other their private life of “perversion”. I am adament in my opinion that no one would ever “choose” to live their life as a gay man/woman.

    Comment by Drummer Dave S. — September 24, 2008 @ 4:49 pm | Reply

  71. I have to ditto what TNguy said, “Shame on you” to Dr. Dwight Hunt. I don’t say it very often, if ever, but I think I have to say it this time… You are wrong. I, like TNguy, had a wonderful, healthy, stable, loving childhood. Both mom and dad were present. Come on… those kinds of arguments are dead. The research, as well as our own experience proves they have no validity. Stop trying to come up with weak arguments to justify your continued condemnation and oppression of us. Please try ACTING like Jesus, especially if you are one that claims His name.

    Comment by Maija — September 27, 2008 @ 9:10 pm | Reply

  72. “I don’t say it very often, if ever, but I think I have to say it this time… You are wrong.” “Shame on you”

    Maija,

    It seems that all you have to offer here is shameing. It’s the only tool you use. Shame shame this and that, but no arguments, no exegetical deduction, no reasonable use of either social or ethical theory; just shame.

    It really is hypocritical to dish out unending insult and judgmental condemnation upon people under the guise of being uncondeming. If all that you are willing to do is insult people you have little room to insult them for being judgmental. It’s really too much. And it is boring.

    And there was no one more condemning than Jesus, unless you are reading a completely different book than the rest of us. He just knew who to condemn under what conditions and always offered forgiveness in the context of a repentant heart. You have obviously been sold the pacifist 60s hippie Jesus that has little to do with the testimonies of His life and character that Christians use to guide their faith and practice.

    Comment by Christian Theology — September 30, 2008 @ 10:05 pm | Reply

  73. Doug, You wrote a great article. I am in complete agreemant with you.
    It is almost hard for me to believe that professing Christian people can believe that homosexuality is okay. There is no misinterpretation of Scripture concerning this sin.
    Some are interpreting Scripture according to their own mind, emotion, and such. Some don’t care how God feels.
    I too pray for Ray to return to God, and make things right. I will continue listening to the music,and the songs he sang; the message of the gospel is still there; at least in the older songs.
    Thanks for the stand.
    T.A.

    Comment by Tim A. — October 2, 2008 @ 4:18 pm | Reply

  74. Jesus was a radical and was against synagogue leaders of his time only because they placed their culture and traditions above God’s word. That is exactly what is taking place with the so called Christian gay community. God Himself has said in his word (the Bible) that homosexual behavior is sin. It is not how God has created us. The fall of man has brought about such acts and deeds. God love gay and offers salvation to them just as he has all others who have sinned. But you can not say God does not classify the homosexual behavior as sin. It is very clear in his word that He does count it as sin. Do not attempt to hold on to your culture or tradition as more valuable than God’s inspired word.

    Comment by JDM — October 6, 2008 @ 2:47 am | Reply

  75. It has always bothered me to hear the words, “I’m a gay christian” or “homosexual christian.” The word christian means Christ-like. How can a person be like Christ and be a homosexual? Jesus is Holy and sinless! Those two words must never be used together. We cannot be deceived. Feelings have nothing to do with God’s Truth. Just because we feel like we are “this or that,” doesn’t mean that God is wrong and we are right. And when someone like Ray Boltz decides to tell the whole world that he is gay after years of ministering in music to so many, we must pray that the enemy doesn’t use this as a doorway to greater problems in the christian marketplace. You were right on Doug!

    Comment by noble — October 7, 2008 @ 6:38 am | Reply

  76. Ghandi said: “I’d be a Christian if it weren’t for Christians”. Sad sad sad. But he’ll say it all over again if he were still alive and reads parts of this thread written by the children of a so-called loving god.

    Used to be a church-goer myself, still have an amazing journey with Jesus, but would find myself turn agnostic if I have to surround myself with club-type, bible-bash Christians ever again in my life. I’ve led more people to the knowledge and love of Christ by simply focussing on their strengths. Can we really trust the Holy Spirit to heal and restore people in His time/manner, not in the manipulative ways we “expect” them to get “saved” and all. Love covers a multitude of sin. If those of you quoting scriptures (very accurately and on the nose) spent half that time used searching , copying and pasting it to rather pray sincerely for Ray and him to have a supernatural experience of God’s love and restoration of years of pain and anguish in his life and that God LOVE’S HIM JUST AS HE IS, but also loves him to much to leave him the way he is and it’s God’s unique journey with each of us which is of essence.

    In 1431 Joan of Arc gets burnt as a witch based on “Biblical” conviction of the church, 478 years later she gets beatified as a Saint also based on “Biblical” conviction. Holy-moly – no wonder all the atheists in the world today, christianity is confused and confusing. If I hadn’t had such an amazing personal experience on my journey with Christ I’d be an atheist for sure. The world’s at a sad sad place with politics, economies crumbling, people starving, murdered and dying, and the “love-filled” christians have a national stone-throw day at Ray Boltz. Shame on you!!!! Dang!!!! And to use hell as leverage – wow! All the changes and growth in my life have been as a result of God’s love and grace and NOT my fear of hell…

    I can just see Jesus shaking His head saying: “Do these people still not get what I did on the cross, was it all in vain, will they ever understand My love?”

    Hope to see some of you in heaven, I know I’ll see Ray there for sure, some of you would probably apply for a discharge at the surprise you’ll get over MANY you didn’t think deserved to be there.

    Comment by PeacefulGorilla — October 11, 2008 @ 6:09 pm | Reply

  77. How very interesting that nearly one month later, this feed is still moving along. That gives us clear indication that this is a topic that many people feel very passionate about. I think the dialogue is good and healthy, as long as it’s not condemning or oppressive.

    All I have left to say here is that love always prevails, and truth always outshines the darkness of lies and misinformation. I challenge each of you to continue studying the Scriptures responsibly. I would also encourage you to look at both sides of this viewpoint — which is only fair and responsible. In my journey, I read all kinds of literature from James Dobson and Exodous International, to name a few, and I read work from well-known and respected authors, scholars and theogians who believe that Scripture does not condemn same-gender, loving, committed relationships. I am alive today, and in a very rich, full, fulfilling and happy marriage with my female spouse, because of the truth that has set me free. My relationship with the Lord has never been better, nor have I ever felt more at peace in my life than I do now.

    So to those of you who are struggling with Ray’s truth, and waking up at night with a heavy heart for him… rest assured, Ray is ok! In fact, I would venture to say that it’s quite possible that Ray has never been better! Your prayers might help YOU to feel better… which is usually the case… when we pray, it’s usually we who are most changed. My prayer is that the Lord will give you peace, comfort and understanding.

    I have no doubt that in years to come, people like you will look back upon your life and shed tears over the condemnation and oppression you inflicted upon God’s gay & lesbian children. It’ll be no different than now, when some people in our country shed tears of shame and guilt at what they did to support the masacre of Native Americans, justify slavery, deny women the right to vote, and deny inter-racial couples marriage equality. It’s the same oppression… just a different group of people… and ALL of it was justified by the interpretation (misinterpretation) [of Scripture] of SOME religious people in authority. Don’t forget history. Let’s learn from it and not make the same mistakes again.

    Comment by Maija — October 12, 2008 @ 5:14 pm | Reply

  78. To MaryK (post #44) – You wrote: “This is the best article I have seen on this. I have enjoyed Ray Boltz’ music for some time now and so I was so sad to hear about this. At first hearing, I just said I would pray for him (and I will), but I was made sadder still to learn that he has made the decision to leave his wife and family and go to live with his homosexual lover.”

    Where did you come up with such lies that “Ray was leaving his wife to go live with his homosexual lover?”

    Please do not say things that are not true. Doing so, only hurts people. Ray, in fact, did not leave Carol to go live with anyone. Ray and Carol separated amicably, and Carol supports and loves Ray beyond measure.

    Comment by Maija — October 12, 2008 @ 6:36 pm | Reply

  79. Okay…the Bible says that about homosexuality.

    Let’s take something else literally:

    First, the Bible says that “all liars shall have thier place in the Lake of Fire.” We’ve all told a lie, so that means we’re all going to hell, Christian or not.

    Second, men can’t go to Heaven. Only women. Why?
    The Bible says Christ is coming back for his bride. Men can’t be brides. Men, we’re going to Hell, Christian or not because a man can’t be a bride.

    Yet, the Bible says that plainly, no questions asked, yet how many of us twist and turn that to make it, oh what’s the word I’m looking for… “convenient”?

    The Bible also says “WHOSOEVER WILL.” That means anyone, it didn’t say anyone except gay people.

    I think we need to stop the little “witch hunt” and pray for him. Lay down the torches and lift him up in prayer.

    Do you honestly think that God can’t use anything He wishes? That’s what you’re saying when you say that Ray Boltz is no longer “usable”.

    Comment by Jason — May 11, 2009 @ 10:11 pm | Reply

  80. Just to point out for all those who seem intent on ignoring what God says on the matter.. yes all people are created by God and loved by God, regardless of the life they choose to lead.. including the murderer, rapist, thief, etc. . However, just because they are loved by God, does not mean that the just and holy God will receive them into his kingdom. The only way any of us, who are born in sin, will make it into heaven is by the shed blood of Jesus Christ. If you allow anything to come between you and Christ, then you are condemning yourself to hell. God doesn’t send you there, you send yourself. Now it amazes me how people seem to overlook what God commanded of Isreal, his chosen people, regarding these sins.. Homosexuality is given equal status with beastiality, and having sex with close relatives, and other unspeakable sexual practices, and the prescription for these acts was to be stoned to death.. Now I’m not saying we need to persecute people, or that we are bound by the jewish law, but God is the same yesterday, today and forever. There’s no new revelation regarding these acts, they’ve been around since the beginning. God didn’t condone homosexuality in Moses’ time, he doesn’t condone it today. Jesus never directly speaks against homosexuality, but when the woman caught in adultery is brought before him, he doesn’t excuse her sin, but her tells her go and sin no more. He does tell the crowd “he who is without sin cast the first stone”, and shows that we are not to persecute those in sin, that we are to show compassion, but he certainly doesn’t say hey it’s ok that you live in sin.

    Comment by Mark H — June 2, 2009 @ 1:23 pm | Reply

    • Excellent response. It seems so few on here have the intestinal fortitude to speak the truth…
      The Bible say that “we are condemned already”..so unless we have godly sorrow and true repentance ALL are destined for Hell…No exceptions.
      Thanks for speaking the truth.

      Comment by T — March 11, 2011 @ 3:04 am | Reply

  81. When I first heard about Ray was about two weeks ago. My first response was, “yea, that said that about ______ also and that wasn’t true”. Then my wife and son showed me the article on the web. I was heart broken. Not just because he came out of the closet but because I understand what he has felt for years.

    At the age of 10 I was molested by a man and the journey of confusion started for me. The word of God says that when a man lays with another man it causes confusion. Boy did it ever. By no fault of my own I lost my viginity and my identity for about seven years. One part of me said it was wrong while the fleshly part of me said that the feeling was good while it was happening. (confusion). Until I was 17 satan kept telling me that I had no choice, I HAD to be gay, the desires were there and I acted on them a couple of times. Depression weighted me down and I was a very unhappy person, Just like Ray is talking about.

    I gave my heart to Christ just before my 17th birthday and fell madly in love with my Lord. There was such a radical change that some did not know how to respond to it. Talk about being happy. I was happier than I had ever been in my life. But it wasn’t long before old desires began to rage. I was 17, hormones raging and trying not to slip back in to that old life style. I wish I could say that I never had a problem with it again but I can’t. I can say that I never performed those acts again. I am 46 years old now. I have a wife and a 14 year old son that loves God and I am constantly reminded that what they see me do they will either do or except as beeing ok. I can’t tell you the times that they have pulled me back from the dark days that I have faced just by simply being there, praying for me as well as the thought going through my mind, “I can’t do that because it will lead my son astray”.

    There are a few things that I know for sure. The bible says that he knows my frame, he knows that we are dust and that he has not punished us according to our sin and boy am I glad. I know that My goal each day that I wake up is living for God the best I know how according to his word and when those thoughts hit me, and they do almost every day to cast them down and take authority over them.

    Ray, if you are reading this, friend let me tell I KNOW what you have and are going through I live with those evil desires every day and sometimes I beg God to take them away but he never has. The words of Paul ring in my ears when he asked God to take away his thorn in the flesh and we all have one, don’t kid yourself. But Paul said this when God said that his grace was sufficiant for him,(God’s unearned favor was enough to see him through it), He said, He learned to give God thanks for his thorn in the flesh because now he understood why it was there. It was there to keep him from getting a swelled head about all the exploits he was doing for God. Whenever I accomplish something for God and I get out of balance that has been put there to bring me back down. It doesn’t mean I go and perform it but I fight the urge to go and fulfill it and I again realize I am not all that.

    Ray, My Grand Father taught me a valuable lesson before he died but it wasn’t until after he was gone that I relaized the importance of what he had said.

    He was a alcholic for years and the day came when the Dr. said to him, “I don’t want you to go home, I want you to go buy two fifths of whiskey and I want you to drink them both, because when you do we aren’t going to have to worry about you any more”. That statement hit him so hard that he went home and packed his bags and went down the street to a boarding house to rent a room. He told the little widow woman that he would rent a room if she would do two things for him. 1. On Friday when he got his pay check he wanted her to put it in the bank for him. 2. Sit on the front porch and talk to him. She did this for him. He ended up marrying the little lady and they stayed together until she passed away, and he never had another drink in his life. The reason I tell you this is because she helped him with the two things that caused him to have a problem. The money to buy the stuff and the opportunity to go do it.

    Ray I encourage you to go back to the ones that really love you and that is your family. Let them help you with the two things that cause your problem. Possibly the money to do it but I know the opportunity to perform it. You wouldn’t dare perform an act like that in front of your family, so I am asking you to stay around them so that you don’t have the opportunity to fulfill the acts. I wish I could tell you that it will go away in a few weeks but, like myself,it may last for years. The great thing about it is I have my family to help me, with out judgement if I fail, and I know God loves me in spight of my failures.

    Everyone can quote Jn 3:16 but not many can quote the next verse, Jn 3:17. “For God sent not his son into the world to condemn the world but that the world through him might be saved”. If Jesus didn’t come to condemn you who do I think I am to do it. We all love you Ray and we are praying for you. You have been mightily used of God and you will be again. A few days ago when I was on my way to work I was praying for you and the Holy Spirit spoke to me and said, ” Don’t worry about Ray, I have him in the palm of my hand”.

    Ray, in closing let me say, that there is a simple prayer that I pray many days. It says “Lord you know me better than I know myself and if you don’t change me I will be like this until you come”. I release it in faith knowing that God takes care of me and if I could change me I would have done it a long time ago. But if I could do it then there would have been no need for Jesus to come and die. Turn it over to him and seek his face, days of depression may come from time to time but they will pass and I will see you when we get there. I look forward to it.

    Love, Prayers, AND THANKS FOR GIVING TO THE LORD, I AM A LIFE THAT WAS CHANGED.

    Paul & Family

    Comment by Paul — July 25, 2009 @ 6:03 am | Reply

  82. I think that we should pray for Ray Boltz and hope that he repents and turns away from his homosexual lifestyle.I don’t believe that we should condemn him,because some Christians struggle with drug addiction,pornography,lying,adultery,and etc.I don’t believe that he could remain in that sin,without feeling guilt.When I sin I feel guilty and ashamed because I am doing in right in front of Gods eyes.

    Comment by mike42lan — September 23, 2009 @ 7:40 pm | Reply

  83. I think that Ray Boltz ought to repent and ask God for forgiveness and come back to the family of God.

    Comment by mike42lan — September 24, 2009 @ 8:44 pm | Reply

  84. What a great perspective. Thank you. It is wonderful to read of godly concern for Ray and all those other Ray’s out there who we do not know about. God bless you my brother!

    Comment by AbbasGirlMe — December 18, 2009 @ 11:21 pm | Reply

  85. It never fails to amaze me that people can see the hand of Satan at work in so many different facets of life but yet fail to realize his work in the desecration of God’s Word, the Holy Bible. Here is a man {Eaton} using some Godless revision of God’s Holy Word to point out Satan’s methods of destruction. In the second point of the article Eaton himself points out the questioning of God’s Word. The first attack by Satan in the garden of Eden was “Yea, hath God said?” The changing of God’s word is forbidden in scripture. Don’t add or take away from.

    Comment by Curt — February 20, 2011 @ 5:23 pm | Reply

  86. [...] Ray Boltz is a Homosexual: Shouldn’t We Be Glad That He is Happy? «Scripture says that our enemy prowls around like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour, and much too often we as Christians do not take this warning seriously enough.  Now I do not claim to have insight into the exact reasons why Mr. Boltz decided to grab on to his lusts and forsake his obedience to the Lord, [...]

    Pingback by Rey boltz | ChildrensYogaPlay — March 4, 2011 @ 11:50 am | Reply

  87. Sodomy is an abomination unto the Lord our God…Yes God loves the sinner but He HATES the sin and will PUNISH those who do not repent. Homosexuality is completely inspired by the Devil and God can not and WILL not tolerate it.

    Comment by T — March 11, 2011 @ 2:54 am | Reply

  88. The Lord Jesus is the Creator the word made flesh. He spoke the word with authority. He came to set the captive free and can minister divine power to break the yoke in and on people.If homosexuality isn’t sin and bondage then what is. Remember this that he went to calvary shed his precious blood on the cross dying for sin he and rose from the grave.

    Comment by Anonymous — July 17, 2011 @ 3:27 pm | Reply

  89. The Lord Jesus is the Creator the word made flesh. He spoke the word with authority. He came to set the captive free and can minister divine power to break the yoke in and on people.If homosexuality isn’t sin and bondage then what is. Remember this that he went to calvary shed his precious blood on the cross dying for sin he and rose from the grave.

    Comment by timothy — July 17, 2011 @ 3:31 pm | Reply

    • Yes He can speak authority but people have to “accept” that authority. He doesn’t force anyone but He does seek obedience. Going against His Word is NOT obedience.

      Comment by Tammy Henson — August 9, 2011 @ 10:19 am | Reply

  90. Remember that he went to calvary, and he died for our sin shedding his precious blood and he rose again from the dead.He has the victory.Jesus is the Lord the Almighty

    Comment by timothy — July 17, 2011 @ 3:35 pm | Reply

    • I remember Timothy. I remember the sacrifice. I don’t spit it back in His face by putting my happiness above His desires for my life. Yes I fail but don’t get up everyday & throw part of the Word away for my own “happiness”. many will say to me Lord Lord but I know you not. Think about it. It’s just not that simple. There are many “ifs” in the Word. Read it & don’t be fooled by the “feel good” sermons of this day.

      Comment by Tammy Henson — August 9, 2011 @ 10:18 am | Reply

  91. Gays are not of Christ but of the devil, sodom and gomorah was burnt because of gays.

    Comment by John — August 18, 2012 @ 5:44 pm | Reply


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